Interview: Said Tayeb Jawad
Paul Rodriguez
The Washington Times
06/10/2004
Afghanistan's ambassador to the United States,
Said Tayeb Jawad, answers questions from Insight Editor Paul
Rodriguez. The 47-year-old diplomat was assigned to Washington
only a few months ago. Jawad returned to his native country
following Sept. 11, 2001, as a volunteer anxious to help his
country and stamp out terrorism. He is a lawyer from a middle-class
background; his father was a university professor in Kabul before
moving to California to teach and write books.
Question: What do you mean when you say of our
two countries that we have shared mistakes?
Ambassador Jawad: After the Soviets left, the
energy that should have been focused on rebuilding Afghanistan
and capitalizing on the victory over communism was dissipated
or used for personal and factional gain. The Soviets were gone
and their regime was defeated, but many more Afghans now lost
their lives unnecessarily.
Q: Has that lesson of 10 years ago or even five
years ago been learned?
A: The danger that violence will erupt is still
there, though the situation in Afghanistan has changed drastically.
We see stronger commitment by the international community to
stand with the moderate forces in Afghanistan. Yes, those forces
were weak in the past, and groups and factions with weapons
and extremist ideologies were, and still are, trying to impose
their will on Afghans with the assistance of foreign countries
-- particularly neighboring countries. But we are working effectively
with coalition partners to overcome such threats. Afghanistan
is building national institutions and creating a civil society
with an orderly rule of law and opportunities for everyone to
come along and to participate in the building of the new Afghanistan.
Those unwilling to participate will be sidelined.
Q: Do you mean the Taliban and other terrorist
or extremist groups?
A: We have experienced no re-emergence of the
Taliban, but we are seeing some cross-border infiltration by
foreign terrorists. Some of the terrorist groups have acquired
more mobility and are going after such soft targets as U.N.
employees. While there have been attacks on Afghan and coalition
military and civilian workers, these are not so widespread as
before the Taliban were defeated.
One key reason for this is the increased cooperation
we're getting from the Afghan people, who are tired of war and
want peace. I'll give you an example. One U.N. worker, a young
lady, was murdered by a terrorist -- but before the government
forces arrived the locals had arrested this guy and they wanted
us to kill him immediately. A cooler head had to intervene and
talk with the governor to stop the people from killing this
assassin before he could be given a proper trial. The people
at last agreed. They had paid a heavy price under the Taliban
-- but they agreed to let the law handle the problem because
they know that the re-emergence of terrorism can only be defeated
by democratic unity and popular respect for the law.
Q: What about yet another bumper crop of opium?
With people starving to death, and criminal elements still in
control of large areas where the poppy is cultivated, it is
understandable that some opium production continues. But this
is on a grand scale. Why should Westerners keep giving money
to rebuild and stabilize your country even as your warlords
and many ordinary people continue to produce and export this
poison?
A: Bear in mind that there is a direct connection
between drugs and terrorism. We cannot fight terrorism effectively
without also having a comprehensive strategy to fight the drug
war at the same time. We see a direct connection between drugs,
terrorism and warlords in Afghanistan.
It is very unfortunate that the production of
illegal drugs has increased, and it is a matter of serious concern
to us and to the international community. Yes, it not only endangers
the world community but it gravely endangers our national interest,
penalizes our economy and prevents the reconstruction process
that has started in Afghanistan.
We are very concerned about this and we're asking
the international community to provide the necessary assistance
to help us create an effective law-enforcement apparatus to
deal with it. President (Hamid) Karzai recently signed a national
drug strategy, and we're training special police forces to fight
narcotics. But we also need international support for crop substitution
and establishment of a national judicial system to put these
criminals on trial and assure the people of Afghanistan that
a new government is in control to protect its people.
Q: We've spoken with some of the drug farmers,
and they confirm that while there were barbaric aspects to the
Taliban system of drug eradication, when they were ordered to
stop they generally did so. Yet when the Karzai administration
asks them to stop they do not. Why?
A: That's because we are not employing tactics
of despotism but are trying to establish a rule of law. We're
not going to kill someone on the spot because we find a few
pounds of hashish in his home. That's what the Taliban did.
They were punishing -- or threatening to punish -- by killing
the farmers on the spot.
Rather, we have looked at this problem in a comprehensive
way and are trying to develop the means to deal with the economic
and security factors involved in ridding our country of illicit
narcotics. As I have said, it assuredly must include assistance
from the international community.
The Taliban were successful in taking control
because of despotism. They created a monopoly of production
with themselves in charge and destroyed vast areas of agricultural
lands to push up their prices. We're trying to stop this cycle
of ruin and come up with sound plans to provide substitute crops
and accelerate the process so that there will be other means
of livelihood for the farmers. We've even tried paying cash
for destruction of the poppy crop. But it's a very complicated
situation, especially given the poverty of so many farmers and
the continued control of many areas by the warlords.
Q: The problems you've outlined are immense for
sure. But many Western officials raise concerns about your government's
inability to control criminal activities. They say that in some
cases the government appears to do nothing about the problem,
suggesting it has little or no power where criminal activities
are viewed as legitimate to keep people alive. Care to respond?
A: Yes, it can appear that way to outsiders. Criminal
activities of any nature are wrong and those engaged in them
must be punished. We are trying to do this under difficult circumstances
and with very limited resources. My people are not prone to
criminal acts. We have very strong moral values, and these have
been made stronger as we endured year after year of tragedy
and grief.
It's precisely because of our traditional values
that we've been able to overcome so many obstacles. In particular
in Afghanistan, but generally in Islam, those who cultivate
poppies or engage in drug trade are considered criminals. Such
a person is a sinner. And bear in mind that our country was
destroyed by many years of war and violence, and the networks
that supported the farmers were destroyed. One result has been
that traffickers came in and provided credit to starving farm
families in return for 25 percent of the crop.
We are trying to establish a rule of law and we
are encouraging the religious institutions and religious councils
to issue strong edicts and fatwas against cultivation of illegal
drugs. But it will take time.
Q: Is there light at the end of the tunnel?
A: There is, but it takes time to get there and
we're looking at the international community for help. Many
resources and much money have been allocated to South America,
for instance, but we're not getting such attention even in the
midst of war. That's why, as I have mentioned, it is a complicated
situation, it is a war that requires a strategic and comprehensive
approach, and it cannot be done only by Afghans or done in a
matter of a few months or a few seasons. It will take time to
develop the actual law-enforcement capacity and come up with
a substitute crop even as we accelerate the reconstruction process
so that the people will be busy doing other things. But I'm
sure we will prevail!
Q: One concern involves corruption within the
Afghan government, sometimes coupled with allegations of corruption
among some of the nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) operating
in your country. What do you know about any of this?
A: We assuredly would like to see details of any
such alleged corruption of high-ranking officials. I've asked
for people to come forward with names so we can investigate
and take the necessary actions. At the same time, when it comes
to corruption in the lower levels of the government, unfortunately
it does exist. Some results from lack of human capital, lack
of qualified people to perform the skilled jobs. Some of the
posts in the present government were awarded to those holding
them for the sake of stability in the country. We know that
some of these people are not qualified to do this or that job,
and that this leads some to try to secure their own future by
corrupt practices.
After 30 years of war and violence, most services
in Afghanistan are broken down, and public employment based
on merit only now is being re-established. It's taking longer
than some of us thought to train and put into place the right
people to run the administration. But at least we are willing
to be transparent so that those in the international community
willing to help us can know we are appreciative and trying to
clean up corruption and install qualified people.
Q: This is important to Americans who are concerned
about sending our young men and women into your country at such
a high cost in lives. To switch gears, what are the positives
of U.S. efforts to help stabilize and revitalize Afghanistan?
A: Well, there have been many achievements even
though few have been reported in the press. For instance, in
the last meeting of the Afghan council, 20 percent of the members
were women, and they made their voices heard and their faces
known. Together with the men, they adopted a new constitution,
which provides that 25 percent of the new parliament will be
women. That's remarkable progress when you remember that, just
two years ago, if a woman were seen by a male doctor both could
be punished or even killed.
Today 5 million of our children are going back
to school. This is the most important investment that you in
the United States are making for the future of Afghanistan,
for the future safety of my people and the future stability
and security in the region. Of these 5 million children, 2 million
are girls -- unheard of even two years ago! At the same time,
more than 5 million refugees have returned because they felt
that their country now is safe -- that's progress that few in
the West can understand. But, believe me, we do.
Meanwhile the World Bank estimates that Afghanistan
has experienced a 30 percent growth rate in the past couple
of years -- the last year really. Granted, that's a growth rate
from below zero, but it's a sign of immense potential that so
much is going on in Afghanistan that is good, like the adoption
of a constitution that may serve as a model for other post-conflict
nations. This shows the determination of the Afghan people to
make their country into a peaceful, democratic nation.
We've also secured our currency and established
a banking system and banking laws that have been approved by
two international banks confident enough to open branches in
Kabul. And this also occurred in relative peace. For example,
we converted billions of old currency into the new monetary
units with virtually no conflicts or violence. The same with
the elections -- there were no security incidents.
Q: For all the promise of a more stable Afghanistan
the country still remains dangerous in some areas. What inducement
is there for a Westerner to invest in your country?
A: On a larger scale the greatest benefit comes
from what must be called a critical investment in the security
of the world. We learned from the terrible carnage in New York
City that an evil in Kandahar or in Kabul can affect everybody
in the world. The added profits that Western countries are getting
from their investments here are safety and security.
Q: What are the investment opportunities for someone
who isn't affiliated with a government or NGO?
A: You can invest in many areas right now, particularly
in power generation. It will have a high return in Afghanistan.
We will be opening the Afghan hydro markets to foreign investors
soon. Afghanistan is located on the crossroads of central Asia
and south Asia. This provides the best opportunity to conduct
trade with a number of countries in the immediate region and
also with the Indian subcontinent and its emerging markets.
Q: What else would attract foreign investors?
A: Depending on the size of the investment, there
are many opportunities in Afghanistan. For example, we're a
major producer of fruits and vegetables, so there is an opportunity
for packing fresh fruits and selling them to markets in the
Gulf or Europe. Afghanistan has an eager and relatively inexpensive
workforce and a number of highly valued commodities such as
saffron and others. What I'm saying is that the investment opportunities
in Afghanistan are tremendous and we're eager for the business.
We've established an office called AISA -- Afghan
Investment Support Agency. This provides a one-window operation
for the investors. In most cases, they are able to acquire the
necessary permits and licenses within 24 hours whether the investor
is small or large.
In addition, our new constitution has established
equal protection for investors whether Afghan or foreign. It
obligates the state to promote the private sector, guarantee
the right of the investors, and assure strong protection of
intellectual property rights, something that doesn't exist in
many neighboring countries in the region. So we're very proud
of our progress.
Q: There have been complaints that Afghans who
have lost their property have returned and can't lay claim to
their family lands. What's the government doing about this?
A: That is another problem we're addressing. First,
it tends to result from the fact that many of the old records
that establish title have been lost or destroyed. Then there
was outright corruption in government and abuse of power, especially
in the major cities where real-estate prices have been very
high.
That is why we established a special court just
to handle land disputes. Though it's not been very effective
for many people, we've learned from the mistakes and understand
that to be successful means establishing a whole system of checks
and balances to make it work. And we're doing that now by emphasizing
the need to revamp our judicial system and put into place people
who know what they are doing.
Paul M. Rodriguez is the editor of Insight.
